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General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: SCB on September 23, 2014, 02:15:09 AM

Title: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on September 23, 2014, 02:15:09 AM
I thought the pilot was decent to good. It's not as good as Arrow or Flash pilots, but those I consider great and something all these other shows should strive to be. I liked it a lot more than the Agents of Shield pilot. It's a lot to live up to since it's Batman. Plus with Nolan making Batman Begins and Batman: Year One comic coming before that, this is very familiar territory to get right on television.

The show opens with a young Selina Kyle pick pocketing food and wallets. She's pretty much Catwoman already it seems, just based on appearance. More of a tease than anything and they're teasing a link to Bruce as well.

The death of Bruce's parents was pretty straight forward. Nothing more, nothing less.

As far as the star of the show, I like Ben Mackenzie as a young Gordon. He needs to be further developed, but so far I'm behind him and curious how he fights the insane amount of corruption and crime without Batman for several years. They did make him a bad ass and former war hero, so they're getting all the basics right.

Donald Logue was an inspired choice for Harvey Bullock. I was initially surprised he wasn't cast as Flask, but based on how his character is written on this show, he is basically Flask and Bullock. Not sure which character he'll eventually end up becoming. I'm thinking Gordon might sway him on his side eventually. Although I love Donald Logue as a villain.

Jada Pinket Smith is interesting as the generic mob boss villain. I have no real complaints about her, just that I wish they'd chosen an actual character from the comics instead. Although she's sort of a catalyst for Penguin.

I can't say much about young Bruce and Alfred yet. Hardly any screen time, but nobody on the show really annoyed me or made me roll my eyes as far as acting and characters go.

The show kind of lacks subtlety since everyone who is supposed to become someone you know is pretty much that person the first time you meet them. Again, I wasn't bothered by this. I suppose the show went out of it's way to meet all the bare minimums for me.

For a show about Batman without Batman, it has potential depending on what they do from this point on. I have no idea what that might be, but I'm genuinely curious about the next episode.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on September 23, 2014, 11:33:43 PM
Liked the show in general.  The pier walk annoyed me, because it was obvious what was going to happen, and came across as kind of lazy writing..  (Sure, Bullock didn't hear him swim away, and never thought to confirm the kill..  whatever.)

And yeah, the show's no Arrow..  The fact they felt they had to put Riddler, Poison Ivy, and Penguin in there at the start, just to draw people in is kind of a red flag for me, to be honest.  (Ivy especially,  didn't really serve any purpose except to get fans to say "Look, it's Ivy as a kid!")
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Zandrax on September 24, 2014, 12:03:33 AM
I'll hopefully be watching in the next 24 hours. I don't have much hope given it's FOX.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on September 24, 2014, 01:44:49 AM
Well they ordered a full season and they haven't filmed most of it yet, so they can listen to feedback and improve it further.

Plus they paid a ton of money for Batman characters, so they're pretty serious about making this succeed. And on top of that, they picked up Lucifer to do next.

Not saying any of this will do well, but they're not taking this superhero tv show thing lightly.

This was also a lot better than the Constantine pilot.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on September 24, 2014, 01:08:02 PM
How is it I never knew that Clark and Bruce both had moms named Martha?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on September 24, 2014, 02:27:04 PM
How is it I never knew that Clark and Bruce both had moms named Martha?

In most of the Batman mythology that I'm aware of (which, admittedly, isn't much), Martha and Thomas Wayne are pretty fringe characters. Generally, I only hear about them when they're getting gunned down in an alleyway.

Martha Kent is a much bigger player in the Superman mythos, relatively speaking.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on September 25, 2014, 09:18:48 PM
I thought it was fucking great, just watched it.  All in.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Zandrax on September 26, 2014, 12:51:02 AM
Legal type link of the premiere http://www.fox.com/watch/331992131936
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on September 29, 2014, 02:44:24 PM
Really good preview of future episodes including the creation of Arkham.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzUJDmjBPuQ&sns
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on September 29, 2014, 08:11:10 PM
I probably should have started this and saved BBT for on demand
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on September 30, 2014, 02:10:22 AM
I really enjoyed and got into the second episode. If you're looking for a superhero show though, this isn't it. It's a crime drama with sprinkles of Gotham characters, and if executed properly like this episode, it's a good show.

The child trafficking duo were good evil villains.

The story of catching them just flowed extremely well with Bullock preventing Gordon from even looking into the case, to all the chain of events that made it a must to catch them, even if it was for the wrong reasons.

I'm conflicted on Bullock. This guy is a dirty scumbag, but not evil and shows hints of a good side you want to root for. I'm curious if he's the same character end of this season. I like him though. As bad as he is, he's basically a good cop compared to everyone else on the force. Gotham is so corrupt, Gordon is considered the trouble maker for wanting to keep things clean.

I'm actually really enjoying Jada Pinkett's Smith's performance as Fish Mooney. It was a little over the top in the pilot, but she's making the character it's own thing here and having fun with it.

Penguin is also killing it, no pun intended. It's sort of a nice Heath Ledger-esque re-imagining of the character without going full Danny DeVito. When ever he's on, the show becomes fun.

Little Selina Kyle has me intrigued now. I want to see a Selina centric episode where we just follow her story.

The Bruce stuff was starting to get fun. It's good they're taking their time with him to build the bridge to a future Bruce. I liked Alfred scolding him for sneaking up on him.

They set up a very nice time bomb with Gordon fake killing the Penguin. As soon as Penguin shows back up in Gotham, Gordon's dirty cop cover is blown you'll have a long list of a chain of command who will be very pissed at him starting with Bullock, the police chief, Fish Mooney, and up at the top with Falcone.

Looking forward to next week in hopes they'll follow up on Selina some more.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on October 01, 2014, 06:05:49 PM
Finished first episode and all I could think really was "Meh?"

I liked the Bullock/Gordon parts dealing with investigating and the corruption but felt almost insulted at all the "HEY LOOK IT'S YOUNG *Batman villain #4".  The only one that didn't feel forced was Penguin.  I don't give a shit about young Ivy (WHO'S REAL NAME ISN'T EVEN FUCKING IVY), Selina Kyle, Riddler (seriously he's that old already and works for the cops?!), and Joker.  Every time one of them showed up it just made me want to go watch Batman: The Animated Series or play the Arkham games.

This show has potential I feel if they just focus on Bullock/Gordon dealing with normal organized crime in Gotham.  There is a lot of potential there.  Every time you try and include the classic villains (are they really about to have young Selina and Bruce meet?!) I feel almost insulted...

EDIT: And you obviously are wanting to include young Bruce in this show.  I get and understand that.  There's a simple way to do it without him getting involved with his villains for later in his life.  Have Gordon become a friend/mentor to him.  Little interactions here and there teaching him about combat or detective work
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on October 02, 2014, 04:09:09 AM
I dunno. I feel like we really need to care about Jim Gordon, and so far, I really don't. Right now, it's just Penguin and Selina who are keeping me tuned in, and Selina only because her eyes are so far apart.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on October 02, 2014, 02:43:03 PM
I dunno. I feel like we really need to care about Jim Gordon, and so far, I really don't. Right now, it's just Penguin and Selina who are keeping me tuned in, and Selina only because her eyes are so far apart.

Haven't seen the second episode yet so can't say anything about Selina that I haven't already said based on the first.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on October 06, 2014, 08:07:38 PM
OK, that balloon thing was awesome

And the murder victim was named Cranston. Before I could come on here and say it was a nod to The Shadow, another character named Lamont shows up. This show gets better and better - I love little shit like that, when I happen to catch it LOL
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on October 06, 2014, 08:21:37 PM
sorry not that murder victim, the thug cop was Cranston
And the balloon guy dresses like the shadow
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on October 07, 2014, 02:26:28 AM
Another episode I liked. Nothing must see though til the last scene with Penguin showing up at Gordon's doorstep.

I like the actor they cast as Sal Maroni. This is the guy that eventually creates Two-Face and Harvey Dent is set to come to Gotham this season at some point.

The weather balloon vigilante was interesting enough, but a little too forced speaking in codes about a future Batman.

I'm glad they didn't do the story where Gordon's wife thinks he killed Penguin the entire season and Gordon never admits he didn't. Penguin showing up clears that all up. Now things might get interesting because Gordon's semi dirty cop cover is blown with just about everyone who pulls the strings, including his co-workers.

The Bruce stuff was whatever. A little too forced. It'd be better if they hardly ever showed him on the show rather than trying to make him into a future Batman in silly ways like investigating his parents murder at his age.

On a related note. This week we'll get extra superhero awesomeness.

Monday - Gotham
Tuesday - Flash and Agents of Shield back to back
Wednesday - Arrow
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on October 07, 2014, 09:50:18 PM
I'd say the show is improving from the first episode.  Nothing fantastic yet but just enough to keep me tuned for the moment
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on October 07, 2014, 11:52:07 PM
Flash is actually Wednesday, after Arrow.

Wonder if they'll release a promotional skin for Injustice:  Gods Among Us, like they did for Arrow?  :)
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on October 08, 2014, 01:44:58 AM
Um Flash was tonight. I'm watching it now. 
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on October 08, 2014, 02:11:41 AM
nt, never mind.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on October 13, 2014, 08:58:13 PM
Who is this new girl, is he a character from the books, or someone new?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on October 14, 2014, 01:46:53 AM
Other than every scene with the Penguin, I thought this was a very dull episode.

Penguin was very entertaining and watching his slow rise in Gotham is actually compelling. This should just be his show. Get rid of everyone else, except Selina. I think there's potential there.

Gordon and Bullock chasing a guy who uses a special stabbing tool? I miss the golden age of this show where the villain of the week is the weather balloon guy.

I think it's where the show is headed, but this could be a much more entertaining show if Gordon and Penguin work closely together to fight crime, much like Bullock and Fish Mooney do.

Random girls auditioning for Fish Mooney to do random stuff? This could have been much more interesting with Selina or Ivy or anyone else a little more significant.

Basically get rid of the made up generic villains like stab guy and balloon man and use the actual characters from the comics like Penguin to focus on. I'm glad The Walking Dead killed the Penguin because Gotham needs him.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on October 14, 2014, 04:51:50 PM
Here's what I keep wondering. Bruce Wayne is like 8-10 years old right now. Realistically, he's got about 20 years ahead of him before he puts on the black tights. Is Gotham supposed to be like Smallville, where the understood endgame was always the moment Clark Kent becomes Superman? Are they planning to play it like The Tudors, where each season jumps ahead 5+ years?



Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on October 14, 2014, 07:02:41 PM
Assuming it doesn't get cancelled, ratings are actually good, I doubt Batman will ever come about.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on October 14, 2014, 07:37:21 PM
Agreed.  The point of the show is Gotham before Batman.  If they do decide to time skip, it will at the end of the series.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on October 14, 2014, 08:41:01 PM
Assuming it doesn't get cancelled, ratings are actually good, I doubt Batman will ever come about.

Then I really don't see the point in our getting so much of Bruce Wayne at this point.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on October 14, 2014, 08:47:05 PM
Sure it does.  Bruce is part of Gotham, too.  There's a big period of time where Bruce was stuck at home, before he was old enough to head off on his own and carve out his own path.  Makes sense to at least include a little bit of that story of Bruce before Batman, along with Gotham.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on October 14, 2014, 09:05:29 PM
Sure it does.  Bruce is part of Gotham, too.  There's a big period of time where Bruce was stuck at home, before he was old enough to head off on his own and carve out his own path.  Makes sense to at least include a little bit of that story of Bruce before Batman, along with Gotham.

It feels like we're getting a lot more than a little bit of that story. And this is right at the start of what will end up being the least interesting ten years in Bruce Wayne's life.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on October 21, 2014, 02:24:51 AM
Well this was different. I thought this was an overall good episode...by the end.

Last week's cringe worthy moments with Fish Mooney and the two girls auditioning and fighting had a big pay off at the end of this episode. It doesn't make up for it, but I suppose it was worth it. Falcone has a weakness and blind spot and this girl is going to exploit it for Fish Mooney.

Of course the stuff with Penguin was good. Maroni is also a fun mobster villain and he knows Gordon's secret about the Penguin. I want to see these three work reluctantly together. Maroni is also picking away at Falcone in a separate war from Fish Mooney.

Now the stuff I didn't care for. The whole story of the drug that gives you super strength before it kills you. Pretty weird leap for this show, just because how campy the special effects were. The drug is Viper and this is obviously an early version or reference to Venom in the future with Bane. It came off cheap, but it connected to the dirty Wayne Enterprises.

Bruce being a boy genius detective also not into. Bale did all this in Begins and it was awesome, but this kid doing it just comes off silly.

It's an odd show that I am becoming indifferent towards because it has no consistency, but I found myself liking it tonight by the time it ended.

Also heard they cast Betty Kane, the original Bat Girl from the Golden Age on this show. I think it's a great idea to reach that far into the mythos, but no idea how this show will execute it. An actual vigilante would be nice.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on October 21, 2014, 12:13:46 PM
I thought this week's episode was good, but I don't know if I am digging the Bruce Wayne 10-year old sleuth storyline. 
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on October 21, 2014, 04:25:47 PM
On the other hand, Bullock's becoming the best part of the show.

"IT'S COFFEE, JIM!"

"What's altruism??!"
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on October 21, 2014, 06:50:26 PM
Actually love every exchange between Bullock and Gordon, including the looks they give each other. They've become good buddy cops. I imagine Bullock will have Gordon's back once Penguin is found alive.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Zandrax on October 21, 2014, 10:35:19 PM
This show makes me wish I still drove my old cop car Diplomat
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on October 22, 2014, 02:25:05 PM
Morena Baccarin (Firefly, Homeland) cast as Dr. Leslie Tompkins.

This is actually relevant casting to the time in Bruce's life rather than bringing in Harvey Dent so soon.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on October 22, 2014, 06:57:01 PM
Thought the villain at first was the Mad Hatter.  Glad it wasn't.  The precursor to Venom is cool but holy hell did that take a weird twist for this show even though it's a comic book show.

The Penguin stuff as always is great.  Riddler was used in a good manner for once as there were NO FUCKING RIDDLES.  Kinda proved they could have and should have used a generic original creation for that role.  Catwoman felt forced down my throat again as usual.

Boy Detective is stupid.  Just stupid.

Falcone/Maroni is being played out well.  I'm hoping to eventually see a young Sionis show up in one of their crews at one point.  I am afraid that this girl of Fish's is going to end up being Harley as I got really strong weak willed overly depandant vibes from her through most of her scenes with Fish.  Couple in the fact it looks like Fish might have already employed the future Joker (back in episode 1).

Parts of this show fire on all cylinders, mainly the Bullock/Gordon and Penguin portions dealing with classic mob.  Then it's like it remembers it's FOX and they have to be terrible so let's force some unnecessary cameo's down your throat some more.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on October 23, 2014, 02:22:26 AM
Not sure why I'm noticing this, but I feel like the girl they cast to play Fish's secret weapon isn't that good of an actress.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on October 27, 2014, 09:53:50 PM
The Barbara side story is making her look less like the supportive wife, and more like a manipulative busy body.  What's she really expect?  If he tells her everything, she'd probably get freaked out, and blame him for caving in to her.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on October 27, 2014, 10:45:27 PM
She seems like she has some kind of background story too
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Zandrax on October 27, 2014, 11:23:48 PM
I'm guessing Barbara will die at some point, because of course the "Barbara Gordon" we know is his daughter. I suppose it's possibe he still names his daughter Barbara though.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on October 28, 2014, 03:15:00 AM
That episode was surprisingly awesome due to the pay off.

I thought "The Goat" storyline was really lame and generic at the start, but it went in a really good direction with the hypnotherapist twist.

So we learn from this episode Bullock is a genuinely good guy or cop deep down inside, but he's had to play the dirty game to survive in Gotham, possibly.

I enjoyed the Riddler in this. He was less cartoonish and more human, a likable human at that. I'd love to see him share screen time with the Penguin one day.

It was nice having very little Bruce this episode, although I'm interested in seeing where he and Selina go.

The Gordon/Penguin pay off was fantastic. I've been waiting for this time bomb because it gets Gordon in trouble with both the GCPD and Falcone. But our little Penguin is going to protect him and he has Maroni on his side, not to mention Fish Mooney's whatever plan separately in play.

Hopefully this was the game changer this show needs. They haven't exactly done the typical freak of the week formula, but it's been random cases every week with Penguin cameos saving the show. Now if it all comes together, there will be a narrative to actually follow.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on October 28, 2014, 03:47:01 AM
I'm guessing Barbara will die at some point, because of course the "Barbara Gordon" we know is his daughter. I suppose it's possibe he still names his daughter Barbara though.

They've retconned who Barbara's mother is a few times. But her mother was Barbara Gordon in Frank Miller's Batman: Year One. Nolan's Batman Begins was partly inspired by that and Gordon's wife again was Barbara Gordon.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on October 28, 2014, 02:22:19 PM
Loved the ending, perfect cliffhanger.  I thought the hypnotherapist was a little quick to admit to her little scheme, at least give a token denial lady!
This is the perfect show to give me at least an hour of Raw to skip
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on November 03, 2014, 12:57:12 PM
Scarecrow coming to Gotham now.

You know there's enough interesting material from Bruce's actual childhood they could pull from like Tommy Elliot, Court of Owls, and Gray Ghost instead of bringing in his super villains from the future.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on November 04, 2014, 11:04:05 AM
Did I imagine that or was that a GREAT episode of Gotham? Wow, the show has found it's footing finally and everything they've randomly sprinkled through out the season finally came together.

Penguin was great as usual and I was rooting for him all the way to him stabbing Maroni's henchmen. He's one of those great villains I want to see succeed. Looks like he was a double agent this whole time. Not sure what he sees in Gordon now though, considering he knew Gordon would let him live before it actually happened.

Also find myself rooting for both Falcone and Maroni at the same time. Both mob bosses are likable and not generic like most of the characters on the show. I think Fish Mooney is the only person I legitimately dislike because she is a bad guy.

Really liked everything Gordon in this episode for the first time. Glad he, Montoya, and what's his face are working together now. The wedge they were trying to drive between Gordon and Barbra over Montoya was poorly written and glad they dropped it.

Also happy to see Bullock finally turn face. Based on last week and this week, he was only dirty because it's the easiest way to survive in Gotham. If you try to be a hero cop, any loved ones you have become a target. That's why all the cops looked the other way when Zsasz showed up.

Zsasz was interesting. His only gimmick in the comics are his self inflicted scars based on his body count. No super powers, so give him an eccentric personality and weird quirks like silly ringtones.  It worked for this show.

I like the way Falcone does business. And I liked what he implied. Without him, Gotham would be  lot worse. He keeps all the freaks and criminals in line. Without him, they'd be doing whatever they wanted, instead of checking in with him. Plus Gordon's dad and the Wayans possibly worked with him.

Looking forward to next week.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on November 04, 2014, 01:32:59 PM
How long before someone says, Penguins eat fish. ?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on November 05, 2014, 12:34:48 AM
Did I imagine that or was that a GREAT episode of Gotham? Wow, the show has found it's footing finally and everything they've randomly sprinkled through out the season finally came together.

Penguin was great as usual and I was rooting for him all the way to him stabbing Maroni's henchmen. He's one of those great villains I want to see succeed. Looks like he was a double agent this whole time. Not sure what he sees in Gordon now though, considering he knew Gordon would let him live before it actually happened.



In a city of killers and crooks, he's dependable.  The one guy he knows would sooner stop murder then commit one.  Handy guy for someone like Penguin to keep around.

And he further ingratiate's himself to Falcone if he's correct about Gordon eventually seeing things his way.  He's been right so far, after all.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on November 11, 2014, 05:18:55 PM
Not the epic game changer like last week, but another solid episode with some big name drops.

The Bruce stuff was actually great. Finally they reach into some actual young Bruce Wayne material from the comics with Tommy Elliot. They didn't make them friends, but his school bully works. I guess they could still make them friends later down the line like Peter Parker and Harry Osbourne, but this as a good and timely reference.

Also more bad ass moments from Alfred wanting Bruce to fight and wanting to teach him how *cue epic music* These are the Bruce moments I can get behind.

Also I'm pretty sure that was meant to be a pre-Black Mask as the main villain. He was done well and Gordon came off great again.

Penguin stealing the show as usual. Hope he finds out about Fish Mooney's master plan.

Actually looking forward to this show every week now, instead of just watching out of habit.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on November 18, 2014, 01:43:51 AM
Didn't think I'd ever be saying this, but that episode of Gotham went by too fast. Everything from Harvey Dent to the Selina/Bruce stuff, to Penguin figuring out Fish Mooney's master plan flowed extremely well and I wanted more.

I liked Harvey Dent. They didn't do anything too over the top with him like calling him Two Face right off the bat (no pun intended), but I liked they showed his dark temper and other than that he was just given to us without much back story the fans of this show do not need. His tactics of baiting criminals might go too far, but it'll be a nice contrast to his ally straight and narrow Jim Gordon.

Penguin continues to steal the show every single episode and I love that he's consistently smart, creepy, and fun. Whatever game he's playing, I'm fully on board to watch him play and succeed. Best interpretation of the Penguin.

And lastly the Selina/Bruce stuff was fun. They're really on the nose with Selina's attitude, walking away in slow motion after telling Bruce he'd get killed on the street, but I like where it's all going. Alfred might be the one to start to teach Bruce how to fight, but Selina will introduce him to how to react to the danger on the streets she's always faced as a child.

Mid-season finale next week and the show has me exactly where it wants me, on the edge.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on November 18, 2014, 10:34:52 AM
When even the Bruce Wayne scenes are interesting, it's been a good show.  :)

Never thought of Alfred as a curmudgeon, but he certainly was one here.  "It's not working out with this hooligan!  Selina gets annoyed when we pry, shirks the meal schedule, and disrespects her elders.  And she tracked mud on my freshly vacuumed carpet!"
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Zandrax on November 18, 2014, 10:53:04 AM
When even the Bruce Wayne scenes are interesting, it's been a good show.  :)

Never thought of Alfred as a curmudgeon, but he certainly was one here.  "It's not working out with this hooligan!  Selina gets annoyed when we pry, shirks the meal schedule, and disrespects her elders.  And she tracked mud on my freshly vacuumed carpet!"

Alfred is trying to be a father to Bruce, so he's acting like one. Noticed he lightened up when Bruce and Selina were clowning around. Probably because it's the first time Bruce has smiled.

I agree it's too soon for Two Face. Harvey Dent was a good man who was frustrated with The System, and that frustration is what became the evil side of Two-Face. But give we have an awesome Penguin, and other good characters, it's not a huge deal for me.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on November 18, 2014, 11:09:30 AM
Alfred is trying to be a father to Bruce, so he's acting like one. Noticed he lightened up when Bruce and Selina were clowning around. Probably because it's the first time Bruce has smiled.



Yeah, but he didn't really give her a chance. His call to Gordon came across like she's stealing or bringing in drugs, when she's basically just acting like a normal kid.

Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on November 18, 2014, 12:55:52 PM
This Alfred is kind of a strange father figure, but in a good way. He encouraged Bruce to beat up Tommy Elliot while he watched, then agreed to teach him how to fight. I'm not sure but did he tell Bruce to use his father's watch as brass knuckles?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on November 18, 2014, 03:08:16 PM
but he turned around when she got bruce acting like a kid
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on November 18, 2014, 03:23:13 PM
Solid episode, I don't even miss RAW.  I'd really like to see this show make it several seasons and see Bruce start to grow up and Penguin solidify himself as a criminal genius. 
The only thing I thought was stupid was Gordon's gf going back to carpet munch city.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on November 18, 2014, 04:45:46 PM
Barb is the only thing dragging down the show right right now. Luckily they are going to debut a new love interest for Gordon the second half of next season.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on November 18, 2014, 07:11:27 PM
Maybe she isn't Batgirl's mom.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Zandrax on November 18, 2014, 07:19:21 PM
I can't help but think Barbara is getting fridged
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on November 19, 2014, 01:09:12 AM
I was suggesting they bring in Sarah Essen, Gordon's love interest from Batman: Year One to replace Barb, then someone told me Sarah Essen was already on the show as the female police commissioner  :o
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on November 22, 2014, 05:12:56 PM
Finally catching up on all the episodes I've missed.  Gonna type out thoughts as they come.

Penguin's Umbrella:

Interesting usage of Victor Zsasz.  Gordon continues to be a badass and you can see he's starting to turn people to the law.  Penguin continues to sell this show.  I've enjoyed all the scenes of Wayne and Gordon together and this one of Gordon saying goodbye is no different.  I really like the idea of Gordon being a "mentor"/role model for him to look up to and model himself after.  Holy crap Penguin is awesome.  Fuck everything else they shoulda just named this show Penguin and had it a telling of his rise to power lol.  Starting to build a crew already buying them out from within the mob.  Did, did Bullock just cock a bolt action rifle like it's a shotgun?!  I could really care less about the Barbara storyline.  Alright now this is cool finding out Penguin has been playing both sides from the start.  He really has seemed to think of every angle.  Really good episode and shows that they are growing and getting better.

The Mask:

I'm guessing this episode introduces Roman Sionis like I have suggested they do for this show from the start.  Well that was an interesting opening.  Oh great, Riddler....at least they didn't make any Riddler references this time proving again they should have just created a generic CSI for the role.  Mooney is just asking to die.  She is refusing to cooperate with anyone it appears despite losing her lover/backup.  Uh, am I about to have to watch Bruce Wayne going to school.  Are we going to find out he goes to school with one of his future villains and their rivalry started there?  FUCK YES!  BLACK MASK!  Barbara is an idiot.  Oh hell no.  That is NOT the style of the his Mask they are going with is it :(  Hey, hey, HEY GUYS, GUYS, GUUUUUYYYS.....Riddler is in this show.  Did he calll that kid Tommy?  Future Hush I guess... Ok so we have her name now.  Liza.  *shrug*  Not sure I like this direction for Black Mask.  Well the kids got fire.  Discount James McAvoy.  I like this idea that all this happens because of the Wayne's death.  Not because Batman shows up.  Oh right...she's in this show...what was the friggin point of that scene.  Alright so that is a young Hush.  So they are keeping that story of them being young classmates.  I like that.  The Bruce stuff has been handled well in this episode.  Lot less him being Batman and a lot more of him trying to just grow up and HOLY SHIT DID ALFRED REALLY JUST BACK HIM AND SUPPORT HIM ON DOING THAT!  Good guy Bullock getting everyone finally on the some-what straight and narrow.  Good move and character growth showing the influence Gordon has on everyone.  Seriously that mask needs to lose the scarf and eyebrows.  Captain took to the field.  Pretty awesome.  Mooney isn't doing it for me anymore.  Not enough thought behind her plans or situation.  Not enough Penguin in this episode.  Really?  He's a cop.  You're going to get pissy because he can't talk whenever you want to talk to him do to his JOB.  Alright so time for Bruce to learn to fight and Alfred starts the instructions.  Overall an ok episode I felt.  Might actually be better than I think it is and I'm just underwhelmed with what they've done for Black Mask.

Harvey Dent:

Hmmm, wonder what this episode will be about.  WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU BRING THE THIEF INTO THIS SWANK ASS PLACE!?  At least Barbara is aware she's being stupid.  If she's going to stay with the Wayne's I'm going to riot...that's it I'm rioting.  Alright so they have Dent as just an assistance DA at the moment.  I was thinking they could have gone with him being just an intern still in law school to have him younger but this is a good way to go too.  Those two are going to bang.  Discount Brandon Routh.  I am not watching this show for awkward young love situations dammit.  Clever of the kid to include the name plate as a piece of shrapnel for GCPD to find to find him.  Sooo, Selena being a street urchin/orphan is the set up for Wayne taking in that street urchin Jason Todd huh.  Penguin has got some balls constantly going into Mooney's and taunting her.  Why wouldn't they bring back up when checking that place out when they know it is very likely where Ian is.  Yep they are so going to bang.  Gordon don't take shit from nobody.  Right, this episode has Dent in it and is apparently about him.  Oooook so Dent is already losing control of himself apparently.  Seriously I don't care about these two.  All of this is making it to obvious who Batman is when he becomes Batman.  Why wouldn't you put the phone on silent/vibrate?  Furthermore, why would you use The Final Countdown as the ringtone.  Bit obvious isn't it.  A food fight.  That's what these two have come too.  Penguin you clever son of a bitch.  Is that going to be Doctor Crane on his right?  Probably one of the weakest episode's since the first.  Very little to do with Dent and to much Bruce/Selina for me.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on November 22, 2014, 06:57:59 PM
Nice stream of consciousness review

Who is Black Mask?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on November 22, 2014, 07:35:02 PM
Batman villain whose a gang leader that wears a black skull mask. I'm not sure that was Black Mask or a relative or a pre-Black Mask. His first name was different. Either way I don't think he was Black Mask in that time in Bruce and Gordon's life. He'll probably comeback as the character in the future.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on November 22, 2014, 07:43:44 PM
It definitely has something to do with it.  Whether it is going to be the Black Mask we know or not remains to be seen.  I hope you're right because I didn't like that Sionis.  Didn't feel like Sionis even slightly.

Nice stream of consciousness review

Who is Black Mask?

LOL Thanks?  I didn't want to watch them all then come back and try and summarize thoughts as I was far behind.  Behind on all the shows right now.  Getting ready to catch up on Constantine, AoS, Flash, Arrow, and The Blacklist.  Haven't watched an episode of anything since about the week before or of Halloween.  Debating whether to do that again for them XD.  Looking back on the post it looks like a bit much
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on November 24, 2014, 11:53:06 AM
The female Copperhead debuts tonight on the mid season finale.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on November 24, 2014, 08:20:56 PM
Damn, Alfred is a bad ass. Which makes sense since why would Wayne trust his kid with a wimp?
Best Alfred ever

BTW, secret passage? Foreshadowing the batcave?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on November 25, 2014, 03:03:10 AM
That was all really well done.

Bruce and Selina on the run in the streets was really fun and interesting. It'd be kind of cheating if Bruce and Selina remained childhood friends and neither can't figure out whose who when they're Batman and Catwoman in the future, but for purposes of this show where that won't ever be shown, I'm okay if they spend a ton of time with each other on and off through out their youth.

Alfred is a bad ass on this show and has lots of great moments. He's not the typical tv dad, which I love. He knows everything Bruce is up to, talking with Selina secretly, and let's Bruce know it's fine.

I was surprised how cool Copperhead was. That was a very nice translation of the character into live action. Nothing close to over the top as Mr. Zsaz, but just as deadly.

And making Gordon as guard at Arkham Asylum is actually a really good idea to mix things up on the show. We get to see Gordon doing something completely different, plus get an inside view into the notorious asylum.

Poison Ivy was a little on the nose, but I'm glad they stopped when they did before going too over the top with her.

Might be the only episode where Penguin didn't steal the show, but I'm all in for his long term plan and rise. It's funny because we already know his future, but this show has managed to make the journey totally unpredictable and interesting.

Looking forward to seeing the show comeback next year.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on January 05, 2015, 07:25:41 PM
And the show is back tonight.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on January 05, 2015, 08:20:02 PM
And Selena and Ivy are in a clock tower
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on January 05, 2015, 11:09:31 PM
FUCK, was watching Raw...and Raw sucks
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on January 06, 2015, 03:21:45 AM
Barbara Gordon evidently doesn't know when she's talking to an eight year-old.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on January 06, 2015, 12:33:49 PM
For all the good to great things they did last year, I thought it was odd they'd hit the reset button with this episode. It felt like a pilot for an Arkham Asylum spin off show, complete with new characters. I wasn't really into it.

When Bullock came to Arkham for Gordon, it really made me miss the old show, not saying it's gone, but GCPD felt like it was just in the background. Even the Penguin was a side story. He's still great and the true hero of the show.

Things I did like was Dr. Leslie Tompkins. I thought she'd be a normal doctor or straight character like Gordon, but she's fun. I liked every scene with she and Gordon. Also loved Ivy trolling Barbara on the phone. I doubt the show realizes how much we hate Barbara and rooting for her to get away from Gordon.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on January 06, 2015, 03:29:26 PM
Montoya sure couldn't get away from her fast enough.

Day one, and she decides it was a mistake.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on January 06, 2015, 05:14:43 PM
Barbara Gordon evidently doesn't know when she's talking to an eight year-old.

haha I was thinking the same thing
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on January 06, 2015, 05:32:18 PM
Here's my question, but maybe I'm forgetting something. When Gordon comes home towards the end, he starts calling Barbara's name. Why does he expect Barbara to be there? I thought she made it clear she was leaving at the end of the last episode or something. Did they have another conversation or something?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on January 06, 2015, 05:46:45 PM
She can change her mind. Based on the mess, someone was living there and his first thought was her.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on January 06, 2015, 06:26:40 PM
She can change her mind. Based on the mess, someone was living there and his first thought was her.

I'd have to watch again, but I thought he started calling her name before he noticed the dirty dishes.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on January 06, 2015, 08:14:38 PM
I thought the same thing
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on January 20, 2015, 01:13:28 AM
Really strong episode tonight.  I think it is one of if not the best episode so far.  Everything fit and nothing really felt forced.  Even the Riddler bits were bare-able in this one compared to the pointless Selena/Ivy story last week that was only there to cause tension in a love story we don't care about.  Culmination in a long story line with a fantastic pay off.  Continued usage of new characters and bringing back the heart of the show in Bullock/Gordon.  They really need to realize this is what this show should be as it's perfect with like this.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on January 20, 2015, 03:07:20 AM
Well after the last episode's hiccup, I thought tonight they returned to form in a big way. This was another game changer of an episode and kind of feels weird not having any Bruce or Alfred on at all for so long.

I think any other show would have made Falcone stupid and soft as a twist, but I love that he remains consistently so intelligent. Killing that girl with his bare hands was damn powerful and thanks to Penguin of course.

Curious how Penguin gets out of Maroni being on to him. Maroni is just as intelligent as Falcone, but without the same amount of years as champ.

The one problem I had with the episode was Gordon defeating Electrocutioner with a cup of water.  I completely forgot this happened thanks to the great Falcone pay off though. At least Gordon is re-instated as a cop.

An Arkham show would have been great, but I was not liking the vibe and direction of the last episode and prefer Gotham on the streets.

Good to have the show back. It also got a season two this week. Not a surprise since ratings for this show are actually better than every other superhero show right now.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on January 20, 2015, 11:14:34 AM
Awesome episode.

The Falcone payoff was booking 101 perfection, taking this guy built up as an almost sympethetic, grandfatherly Don Corleone. and suddenly reminding the audience he's a total monster.

On Maroni, I'm not convinced Penguin got away with anything.  I think he knows Penguins untrustworthy, if not an outright mole, and wants to keep him close and under watch.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on January 20, 2015, 12:49:04 PM
Just judging by how he played it, there's no way Maroni doesn't know Penguin is working with Falcone.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on January 27, 2015, 12:35:55 PM
Solid episode and pretty dark, even for this show which hams it up most of the time.

The Penguin stuff was great as usual. Actually really enjoy his scenes with Gordon. I really thought they foreshadowed Fish catching his mother and killing her, actually relieved when that didn't happen, but it would have fit the tone of the episode at that point.

I always thought Bullock was going to be Flask, but they finally brought Flask on the show. Hoping that wasn't that end of him.

I wasn't a fan of how over the top Riddler has been portrayed originally, but he's really grown on me as  character and is approaching Penguin territory of entertaining scene stealers.

I loved when Zsasz showed up to the rescue and Fish and Butch took off. That guy is bad news.

They're now trying to make Fish another anti-hero like Penguin and Falcone with her softer side with Butch and Bullock.

Only negative might have been the Bruce stuff this week. Wasn't into Bruce crying and Selina pretending to push him away because he's a good kid and she's trouble for him.

Looking forward to what happens next.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on January 27, 2015, 02:51:56 PM
who's Flask?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on January 27, 2015, 04:17:44 PM
Former Green beret dirty cop during Gordon's first year in Gotham in Frank Miller's Year one comic. He was also in Batman Begins as the dirty Batman the intorrogated with "swear to me!"
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on February 03, 2015, 11:59:15 AM
Another solid episode.

Loved the stuff between Maroni and Penguin, but I wish they came up with a more clever way for Penguin to have escaped the car than a lucky phone call conversation that went his way.

Little Scarecrow and his father was an interesting way to bring him on to the show. I'm guessing the Black Mask guy earlier in the season was then Black Mask's father as well.

I like the lighter tone they've taken at GCPD as well with everyone including Gordon, Bullock, Nygma, and the captain.

Fish charging that guy at the end was kind of silly, but curious who that is.

Good show. Looks like Red Hood/possible pre Joker is coming before the season ends.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on February 03, 2015, 01:54:10 PM
Do I even have to say I enjoyed the Penguin bits anymore?  In fact do any of us?  I'm pretty sure the only time his bits are worth mentioning at this point is when they are actually bad and who knows when that will be.  I actually liked how he escaped. It's more fitting at the moment.  He did some quick thinking and got lucky.  He's not a master criminal yet.

I also think this is the episode that's turned me around on Nygma.  I'm starting to like his character and appreciate him in the show.

Definitely, a young Scarecrow.  I was worried at first when you saw Dr. Crane because of his age.  Then near the end when he son walks in and he calls him Jonathan a wave of relief washed over me.  I'm going to agree that the Black Mask we got is likely related to the one we know thanks to that.

Bruce was solid.  This is how they should be handling him all the time.  A single scene and with Gordon and that's it.

I don't care about Fish.  Just kill her already...
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on February 03, 2015, 02:43:15 PM
still kicking butt, forget raw!
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on February 09, 2015, 11:23:48 PM
Haven't watched Raw in months now.  :)

Was Maroni trolling Penguin?  He's acting like it's fear of Falcone that's keeping him alive, when he just ended up hating that police guy more then he hated Penguin.

Just screw Falcone like he screwed you and kill Penguin, if you want him gone so badly.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on February 10, 2015, 02:19:46 AM
Loved the scene with Penguin and Nigma.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on February 10, 2015, 10:09:37 AM
Well that was interesting.

Penguin and Nygma was epic. They played that out perfectly based on each character's fun traits. These two might be the real heroes of Gotham.

Still loving the anti-hero underdog aspect Penguin. Maroni telling him that once Falcone is out, he's dead only motivates him to rise higher and I want to see it. It also makes me feel bad everytime Gordon rejects his friendship.

Speaking of Gordon, things are going so well with he and the doctor, I can only assume it'll end badly. Not sure how because this is something new the show came up with.

And it's a weird reverse engineering of Scarecrow's origin with his father injecting him with the fear toxin. I guess he's going to grow up to do the same thing?

Fish stuff was kind of whatever. What happened to the random guy she was charging at last week?

More curious about how they handle next week, teasing the child version of Joker, if that's what they're hinting at.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on February 10, 2015, 11:06:49 AM
I would have saved Joker for the next season, personally.  No need to interject every character with such haste.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on February 10, 2015, 03:00:56 PM
I don't know why, but in the hierarchy of villians I always imagened Riddler above Penquin. Not in this world though, not yet at least.


I agree, not really necessary to show all of them yet
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on February 10, 2015, 06:50:31 PM
I don't know why, but in the hierarchy of villians I always imagened Riddler above Penquin. Not in this world though, not yet at least.


I agree, not really necessary to show all of them yet

I'm not a big fan of the comics, but Riddler came across as an oddball dork even among the villains.   Kind of like Pied Piper was to Flash's rogues.

Penguin even shot/stabbed him once, because he annoyed him.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on February 10, 2015, 10:16:07 PM
I think honestly that this impression is based on the Adam West TV show
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on February 11, 2015, 01:11:51 AM
I think honestly that this impression is based on the Adam West TV show

Perhaps. Though, as best as I can recall, Cesar Romero's Joker was nothing like the Super Big Bad villain that that character has become since 1989.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on February 11, 2015, 10:04:57 AM
No he wasn't but I never mentioned the Joker I was talking about Penguin and Riddler
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on February 11, 2015, 11:01:12 AM
Riddler was always considered one of Batman's less threatening villains, always leaving clues for Batman and always getting caught because Batman is just as intelligent with his detective work.

I don't think he was taken seriously til the Hush storyline in the comics where he was given something increasingly significant to do against Batman.

A lot of us wanted or expected to see him show up in Christopher Nolan's movies because he'd fit in so well and allow Batman to show off his detective skills, plus Nolan probably would have made him a darker version of Riddler like the killer in Se7en who'd leave clues at his crime scenes.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on February 11, 2015, 01:12:06 PM
Animated series version had a bit of an edge, without going overboard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYn9gbt_MBg



Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on February 11, 2015, 02:15:38 PM
That cartoon was one of the best things ever translated for the Batman universe. The edge probably came from Batman Returns influence at the time. We were lucky as kids to get such an adult themed cartoon at the time.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on February 12, 2015, 03:43:05 AM
That animated series was amazing.  Thanks to it we got the Arkham series which is pretty much a spiritual successor of the show.

Nygma meeting Penguin is probably the best scene out of every scene in this show so far.

Didn't need to see the rest of Fish and that guy fighting as it was obvious how it went.  I want Fish gone and I think we are getting it because...


DOLLMAKER :D

Interestingly done for a Scarecrow origin.

Bruce stuff was, something.  I liked it but felt drawn out somehow.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on February 12, 2015, 09:54:08 AM
Didn't Doll Maker appear in Arrow already? Not that it matters, seperate continuity and all, but interesting
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on February 12, 2015, 05:02:05 PM
You are right.  I forgot about that.  It is seperate continuity so it could be Dollmaker again.

I don't know for a fact that it is Dollmaker they are bringing it but it seems to fit.  A huge assortment of random people from different walks of life all captured and held prisoner and none of them know why.  Then one of them gets returned missing her eyes screaming that he took them.  Dollmaker just instantly came to mind for me.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on February 12, 2015, 06:19:27 PM
No reason why I can't except I'm a little surprised DC allowed it
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on February 13, 2015, 01:30:44 AM
Why DC allowed Dollmaker to appear on two different shows?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on February 13, 2015, 11:00:26 AM
Aren't tv deals done like movie contracts, where only one party at a time has exclusive rights to an ip? 
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on February 13, 2015, 11:15:26 AM
I'm not exactly sure what you guys are discussing about Dollmaker. Has he appeared on Gotham? Dollmaker appeared on Arrow in previous seasons before Gotham ever existed. Lots of Batman characters appear on Arrow, including this season's final boss villain Ras Al Ghul.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: The_Spoiler on February 13, 2015, 11:36:22 AM
Aren't tv deals done like movie contracts, where only one party at a time has exclusive rights to an ip?


Although Gotham is broadcast on Fox, it is produced by DC Entertainment/Warner Bros. Television and distributed by Warner Bros. Television Distribution which are the same Production Company and Distributor as Arrow.  So, in both cases the rights holder is the same for both properties.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on February 13, 2015, 04:44:49 PM
I'm not exactly sure what you guys are discussing about Dollmaker. Has he appeared on Gotham? Dollmaker appeared on Arrow in previous seasons before Gotham ever existed. Lots of Batman characters appear on Arrow, including this season's final boss villain Ras Al Ghul.

The ending to this week's episode seemed like a precursor to the introduction of Dollmaker to me. That's why
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on February 16, 2015, 11:38:20 PM
So a lot of good tonight and a little bad.  Show has been very consistent lately which was nice.  Penguin and everything he was in was solid as usual.  There was just enough  Bruce Wayne to keep you apprised of what he's doing and interested without focusing on him to much.  Fish Mooney part is not Dollmaker it appears.  Oh well.  Lost interest in her again just like that.  Did not like any of the Barbara portion.  How much more can you want us to hate her?  She ditches him because she couldn't deal with his job.  Leaves her apartment and stays with her parents.  Then you have her come home expect him to be there, find out he isn't, find out two street urchins are squatting and she just rolls with it?  Even says "screw Jim Gordon" like she's over him but then has the squatters help her try and get him back?!

As for the point of the episode. Well we met Dick Grayson's parents which is cool.  However, the major point was the introduction of The Joker.  Giving The Joker a solid back story is probably one of the biggest mistakes people keep making.  This back story is even lamer.  There is really no explanation for anything.  He just kills him Mom, laughs at things you normally wouldn't laugh at, and generally creepiness.  The reason it's a problem is even the Carnies were surprised by this sudden change in his demeanor.  There's no signs at any point from them that Jerome might not be right in the head.  Thus the level of insanity he seems to be at already seems massively out of place.  Probably the most unfortunate thing about it all though is that the actual writing, directing, and acting for the big reveal scene was SPECTACULAR.  They nailed it.  Just everything else in regards to it felt lame and underwhelming

Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on February 17, 2015, 01:34:16 AM
I don't think we need to get too worked up about the Joker stuff. Either we're never going to see it payoff down the road, or if we do, the door is open to reinvent the character some other way when the time comes.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on February 17, 2015, 04:20:34 AM
I just feel that with how well executed that final bit with him was pulled off anything down the road is going to be over all cheapened.  How do you re-invent this?  The kid is in the system and likely going to jail.  Sure you could then have another Joker just show up but then you're banking on a second actor to pull off a performance like that.

Honestly it could have all been salvaged easily within the confines of what happened.  never bring up the "psychic" having been his Dad so there's no parental link.  Have the kid get loose and when they go to find him and approach the Carnies they have no clue who he is or how to find him.  Mentioning that he wasn't actually her son.  He was a random kid drifter they picked up a year or so ago and she kind of just took in. He helped out around the circus so they paid him no mind, a very Carnie-like situation/attitude.  You preserve the story you wanted to tell to bring him in but keep the mystery intact for the end.

I don't think it's going to be dropped.  They keep bringing back all the other characters in some manner to remind us they are there.  I can't see them not doing that with this.

I guess my point is that while Jerome might not turn out to be The Joker as Bruno Keller has only stated that tonight begins the origin story for The Joker with the way he played it at the end.  That switch flipping once he knew he was found out it felt to perfect and right to not go with it in my opinion.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on February 17, 2015, 06:43:21 AM
I could have sworn I heard the name doll maker in the coming attractions
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on February 17, 2015, 11:30:36 AM
Well wasn't into that episode story wise, but couple of things worth talking about.

I was kind of bored with the Grayson's mystery, other than the dynamic between Gordon and Leslie plus waiting around for the Joker moment they kept advertising.

So was that kid the Joker? Who knows, since they're doing Red Hood soon as well. But, he did do a good Jack Nicholson impression. It's a nice teaser for the fans, but the kid, if he is the future Joker, shouldn't already be the Joker without make up.

I've been a fan of Penguin since the first episode. And they've made me fall for the Riddler recently as well. And now I'm a fan of this version of Mr. Zsasz. He's been great and especially last night showing up with a reprogrammed Butch. He does good work.

Looking forward to the Penguin scenes next week with Butch.

Don't care for the Fish Mooney stuff. Where is she, why is she there, why does she just run an army so easily. I'm guessing she's going to attack Gotham with the army No Man's Land/Dark Knight Rises style.

Otherwise, good episode.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on February 17, 2015, 11:38:43 AM
They did advertise Doll Maker in the previews for rest of the season.

The Bruce boardroom scene was nice. I wish they'd make that board room the Court of Owls and eventually introduce a young Lucius Fox.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on February 17, 2015, 02:27:52 PM
So then that could be Dollmaker Fish is dealing with still.  Ok, SOMEWHAT, intrigued by that story again.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on February 23, 2015, 08:15:43 PM
Dolmacher? LMAO
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on February 23, 2015, 09:42:48 PM
The Fish stuff is just stupid.  Her "Option 3" should have lead to a bullet in the head.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on February 23, 2015, 09:49:39 PM
Why didn't she take his eye?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on February 24, 2015, 10:38:04 AM
I loved this episode. Felt like a very different episode of Gotham with the dark and serious tone.

I wasn't really into the Fish Mooney stuff the past couple of weeks with her in a mysterious prison and running things, but I love the reveal that she's actually stuck in a horror movie with the Doll Maker taking their body parts. That was some dark stuff with taking out her own eye and being completely powerless. Really looking forward to where this is going.

Alfred's mysterious friend showing up was also well done. I was wondering where this was all going after Alfred got stabbed and the reveal of the evil Wayne Enterprises board was really good. Still hoping they're connected to the Court of Owls.

And I loved what they did with the Red Hood. The Red Hood gang picking each other off to wear the hood was a fun crime storyline and not far fetched.

I kept wondering if they're still teasing who the Joker really is with the first Red Hood being a comedian during the robbery, but he was killed right away. Then there was another stand up coemdian failing horribly at Penguin's club. And another kid picking up the Red Hood at the end also implies it isn't over. Just something to think about.

Not a lot of Penguin, but I hope to see more scenes of Penguin and Butch working together against Maroni.

Hoping rest of the season has this darker tone of storytelling with occasional dark humor.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on February 24, 2015, 03:40:01 PM
Established star Penguin sharing the spotlight with, and pushing Butch.  HHH should take notes. :)

Maroni was kind of biting his nose to spite his face, since Falcone would know well who's responsible for Penguins supply of liquor getting cut off, and Maroni obviously doesn't want a war with him.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on March 03, 2015, 12:22:12 PM
This was great. The show has found it own voice and stride lately and this was a perfect episode, no Barbara scenes.

Loved that they brought back Flask as an antagonist for Gordon. And Gordon fought back with intelligence with his detective and investigative skills to maneuver to slight safety.

Penguin once again, deliciously bad and entertaining. Loved that scene with the old couple at the end.

The guy that they got to play Doll Maker is great, but so was the Re-Animator last week. Sad both couldn't play a pivotal role in that place. Once again, very dark stuff with him being Frankensteined.

The Fish Mooney stuff is the best it's ever been with her being sympathetic now as a prisoner, but someone who knows how to survive.

Looking forward to Alfred and Bruce's own vigilante justice once they're able to move out of the hospital.

Riddler is coming along nicely. What they lacked in subtlety in the first few episodes, they've now smoothed out and has me wanting to see more with this guy as the other "Penguin" of the show. 

Looks like another comic book show on hiatus for a month.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on March 06, 2015, 04:00:17 PM
Jada Pinkett Smith says she isn't returning for next season.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm sad to see her go. I thought she was too campy the first two acts of the season, but has really won me over in last quarter with her as the underdog anti-hero villain.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on March 06, 2015, 08:29:38 PM
Her choice or theirs?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on March 07, 2015, 12:34:55 AM
Her choice or theirs?

Hard to tell from what's being said publicly. Personally, I was never that interested in Fish's storyline.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on March 10, 2015, 12:58:05 AM
Lucius Fox finally cast played by Chris Chalk from The Newsroom.
(https://pmctvline2.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/gotham-lucius.jpg?w=300&h=208&crop=1)
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on April 16, 2015, 12:33:57 AM
Remember this show? It's back!
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on April 16, 2015, 09:35:50 AM
So last weekend was Daredevil weekend. People took days off from work to binge watch it. And Gotham is the first show to follow it. Let's see how they did.

With the Ogre storyline of a 50 Shades of Gray guy going horribly wrong as the villain, this show is probably closest to the dark tone of Daredevil, well as dark as they can get at 8pm on network television. I thought the actor looked familiar, it's Peter Petrulli from Heroes.

Also the Dollmaker storyline is pretty dark as well, just more campy. I don't know how they did it, but they have me rooting for Fish Mooney now. She's become pretty cool and interesting of a character now that she's an underdog against another villain.

I liked the Selina/Bruce interrogation scene of Alfred's friend. It was actually Batman-esque of the Batman Begins "swear to me!" scene and I have a thing for throwing criminals off buildings and Selina doing it was awesome.

Not too much of Penguin this week.

Gordon stuff was pretty good.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on April 16, 2015, 09:40:40 AM
I thought Catwoman never killed
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on April 23, 2015, 02:02:19 AM
Pretty big week for Penguin and Riddleman.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on April 23, 2015, 03:31:05 AM
Liking what they are doing with *snicker* Riddleman
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: SCB on April 23, 2015, 01:44:46 PM
I liked this episode, but it was a pure setup for next week pretty much. And no Fish Mooney.

Still don't care for the Ogre and actually hoping he kills Barbara. She gave that devlish look at him when she entered the sex/torture room. This makes me hope they actually do something with her like she was expecting this the whole time and she'll be the one to kill him and she'll become a likable character for once. If this just turns out to be the predictable Damsel in distress story and Gordon just saves her, so they can get back together - shoot me.

Riddler finally gets his hands dirty. They've made him a sympathetic character thus far, even in killing that cop, who wasn't dirty, but a women beater. I kept thinking Ms. Cringle was making it up and setting Riddler up, but I guess the cop was legit. I still get a Harley Quinn vibe from her and maybe they'll have a Joker/Harley relationship.

Penguin had a similar story as he gets his hands dirty again after a long time of just managing the club.

I enjoyed all the Bruce/Selina team up stuff. It's funny how Selina is actually the best written female character on this show, at least to me.

Also wonder if Gotham is aware of certain things they put on screen.

(http://i.imgur.com/0yyZQ.png)
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/b601a0f3ee4fbdf76795ff8b771b87fe/tumblr_nn41tz94Eh1rryn4mo1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on April 28, 2015, 12:14:08 PM
Best part of last night's episode
 
"hey Jerkoff!"
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on April 28, 2015, 01:49:41 PM
They're really milking the Barbara Gordon peril.  It's like they know people are tuning in to see if Ogre goes riddleman on her, and teasing it out.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on April 29, 2015, 05:04:11 PM
Everything but the Barbara portion I was hooked on.  I liked The Ogre and thought Milo was fantastic as a Christian Bale impersonator.  I liked how invest Gordon was in it where he was willing to break the rules himself.  I did not care for the "is she or isn't she brainwashed" bullshit.  Just either have her side with The Ogre or not. You have enough other mystery shit going on with Bruce investigating his own company (which that went so well this episode) and what the hell is Penguin doing (also played out beautifully despite how obvious it may have been)
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Crazy Train on May 01, 2015, 03:37:04 PM
I thought Catwoman never killed

Oh Catwoman kills. That is an issue that Bruce has with her. Now she isn't Frank Castle and goes out looking to do it, but she will if she deems it unavoidable. Now when she aids Bruce, he makes her adhere to his "no kill" code, which is SOP for Bruce with any team-ups. Refer to Red Hood and others for more examples of such.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on May 01, 2015, 04:31:46 PM
Yeah, he kicked Huntress out of the JLA because she looked like she was about to kill Prometheus.

This is after he just tried to rape and kill her himself.

Green Arrow's killed a few times himself, but I don't think Batman's ever called him on it.



Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on May 01, 2015, 05:50:17 PM
Oh Catwoman kills. That is an issue that Bruce has with her. Now she isn't Frank Castle and goes out looking to do it, but she will if she deems it unavoidable. Now when she aids Bruce, he makes her adhere to his "no kill" code, which is SOP for Bruce with any team-ups. Refer to Red Hood and others for more examples of such.

Guess things have changed since my day  :laugh_mini:
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on May 05, 2015, 02:37:03 AM
Nice season finale.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: RealMarchHare on May 05, 2015, 08:11:52 PM
The one Riddler segment was the highlight of the episode for me
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on September 26, 2016, 08:09:38 PM
Why Valerie Vale instead of Vicky?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on September 26, 2016, 08:34:30 PM
Why Valerie Vale instead of Vicky?

Probably because she'd be a granny by the time she dated Bruce.  :)   (Haven't watched the episode yet, so ignore if she's a kid..)

According to various wiki's, Valerie is Vicky's aunt.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: dam skippy on September 27, 2016, 01:11:16 PM
They found a clever way to forward the Ivy storyline.  This should be very interesting. 
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on September 28, 2016, 06:23:56 PM
She's a reporter, good point Dan, thanks
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on October 18, 2016, 03:41:47 PM
Are they making Penguin gay?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: dam skippy on October 18, 2016, 08:42:46 PM
Tell me about it. That hug came across like it was going to be a kiss. 
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on October 20, 2016, 09:15:54 PM
And the way carressed Oswald.

If they're not going there, they are sure trying to make us think they are.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on October 22, 2016, 11:17:07 PM
I think Oswald still has a very underdeveloped, immature sense of loyalty. He's got a serious mommy complex, and every trusting relationship he finds himself in manifests as love, in the same way as it would with his mother.

Nygma is just playing him. He doesn't want to be second banana - right now he's just buying time until he finds an opportunity to take control for himself.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on October 24, 2016, 10:59:18 PM
Gay it is.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on October 26, 2016, 02:07:03 AM
Gay it is.

No.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on October 27, 2016, 01:54:11 PM
No.


Seemed that way to me, but could be a red herring
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on October 27, 2016, 03:56:39 PM
It isn't him being gay. He's just protecting his feelings for his mother (the only person who ever believed in him) onto Nygma (who's now filling the emotional role Penguin's mother once did). Penguin just has no ability to compartmentalize his feelings of affection.

If there's a red herring here, it's the way Nygma pretends to be Penguin's buddy, but I'm not sure we've reached the point where Nygma has begun secretly plotting against Oswald yet.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on October 27, 2016, 05:09:45 PM
Between the dinner and the "I love you", that's one hell of a red herring.

Plus it's not like we ever saw which way Oswald swings.  Every other character has an interest, but never Oswald.

Deliberate to keep in reserve for a rating spiking gay-straight-straight love triangle?  (Because Riddler suspiciously finds a new interest now...)
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on October 27, 2016, 05:24:43 PM
It isn't him being gay. He's just protecting his feelings for his mother (the only person who ever believed in him) onto Nygma (who's now filling the emotional role Penguin's mother once did). Penguin just has no ability to compartmentalize his feelings of affection.

If there's a red herring here, it's the way Nygma pretends to be Penguin's buddy, but I'm not sure we've reached the point where Nygma has begun secretly plotting against Oswald yet.

You and Pebble could very well be right.

Not sure teasing the audience with "is he/isn't he" won't backfire if they fall on the "isn't" side, though.  These days, it's almost expected to "go there" (Could bring up modern examples across various media where they do.  Even a kids toon, Avatar's sequel, had the female protagonist end up holding hands with a secondary woman protagonist during the closing series finale instead of her male choices...  And hell, even Transformers has a few gay relationships now  and they're genderless robots.  :)  )

Also for the record, Penguin's actor is gay.  (But then again, so is George Takei, and he was outright offended at making Sulu gay in the new Star Trek.)
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on October 27, 2016, 06:31:27 PM
I don't mind a gay character, if there's a reason.  SJW for the sake of being SJW (hello ghostbusters) is unacceptable. 
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on October 27, 2016, 06:38:19 PM
Agreed there.

Just saying, if this is a tease/red herring, expect SJW backlash.  It's kind of what they do. 
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on November 07, 2016, 10:19:47 PM
So what villain is "Judge Dredd" Barnes supposed to be? 

Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on November 08, 2016, 02:25:55 AM
I want a Barnes spinoff.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: dam skippy on November 08, 2016, 10:58:20 AM
There's too much of a formula when it comes to Penguin.  The whole Nygma and the girl storyline was too predictable.


So Chicklis is playing a rogue cop who does what it takes to catch the bad guy.  That's a bit of a reach isn't it?   :diablo_mini:
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on November 08, 2016, 11:56:15 AM
There's too much of a formula when it comes to Penguin.  The whole Nygma and the girl storyline was too predictable.


So Chicklis is playing a rogue cop who does what it takes to catch the bad guy.  That's a bit of a reach isn't it?   :diablo_mini:

Gordon's a bit of a hypocrite, looking at the previews.

Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on November 08, 2016, 03:23:02 PM
There's too much of a formula when it comes to Penguin.  The whole Nygma and the girl storyline was too predictable.


So Chicklis is playing a rogue cop who does what it takes to catch the bad guy.  That's a bit of a reach isn't it?   :diablo_mini:




Haha was just going to post this   :drink_mini:
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on November 21, 2016, 08:21:51 PM
Blacklight:

"Like's??  You mean, like's like's? 

We should visit that another day."

COME ON!  Do they have to come right out and say it?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on November 21, 2016, 09:03:02 PM
Well well  looks like Falcone's kid is infected with the crazy blood.

Kind of convienent for Gordon, as it opens up Thompkin's for the rebound.


Falcone staring down Court of Owls was interesting.  We get an idea of just how big the Court is, if the best Falcone can do against them is be "disruptive".
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: dam skippy on November 22, 2016, 09:49:01 AM
Was the masked man a member of the Owls that I forgot or is he a Green Hornet ripoff?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on November 22, 2016, 12:33:32 PM
Blacklight:

"Like's??  You mean, like's like's? 

We should visit that another day."

COME ON!  Do they have to come right out and say it?

I re-state my point from a month ago:

Quote
I think Oswald still has a very underdeveloped, immature sense of loyalty. He's got a serious mommy complex, and every trusting relationship he finds himself in manifests as love, in the same way as it would with his mother.

He's not gay in any meaningful sense of the word. He's transferring his feelings of unconditional love for his mother onto Nygma.

The real test of my theory is what happens when the Nygma partnership blows up. Does he go for another guy? I predict no.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on November 22, 2016, 08:09:31 PM
I second the question on the masked man. Hornet was my thought too
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on November 28, 2016, 11:48:06 PM
Sorry Blacklight, I think they pretty much erased all doubt on Oswald being gay this week.  :)

And on that note, I'm pretty sure the writers are just making it up as they go now.  Penguin's bscome a soap opera that has nothing at all to do with James Gordon's arc.  Basically, he's the backup story to Gotham's main show.

I kind of wish this love triangle would end and get back to Penguin trying to conquor the city, or something. 
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on November 28, 2016, 11:51:25 PM
I second the question on the masked man. Hornet was my thought too

It's a "talon".

Gotham's doing this "Court of Owls" story now, which is some super secret illuminati like society invented in the comics fairly recently. 

Talon's are the name of their elite assassin's.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: dam skippy on November 30, 2016, 12:46:39 PM
So last night's episode was all centered around intimate relationships.   The Gordon love triangle, Nygma and Oswaled, Selena and Mom, Falcone and son, etc.   I guess for a filler episode it was good but I was a little let down.


I like the Mad Hatter Asylum look.  The riddle game was pretty cool too. It's about time he acted like that.


I did find myself surprised with the ending.  It was predictable but I was expecting something a little different, not sure why.



Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on January 17, 2017, 02:00:41 AM
This show is back with new episodes for three straight Mondays. Then it's off again until the end of April, because......well, I'm not really sure.

Anyway, fun episode tonight. Looking forward to the rest.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on January 17, 2017, 05:26:39 PM
How did they pull off fake penguin's ghost dad's special effects?  The echoing voice, the lighting effect...  Did he have stage props set in his office?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: dam skippy on January 18, 2017, 01:15:42 PM
It's Nigma, if there's a way, If there's a way, he could do it.


I am looking forward to the return of Jerome.  I figured he wasn't out for good.


I haven't seen people clamoring for a return of a character on any show in a long time. 
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on January 18, 2017, 04:56:33 PM
It's Nigma, if there's a way, If there's a way, he could do it.


I am looking forward to the return of Jerome.  I figured he wasn't out for good.


I haven't seen people clamoring for a return of a character on any show in a long time.

No one stays dead for long in Gotham.  :)

And remember when Oswald was the dark horse mover and shaker everybody underestimated, while Nigma was a sad little man with a penchant for murder who Oswald himself looked down upon as a fool?

How times have changed.  Poor Oswald's been screwed with so many times, it's kind of ruined him, imo..

Seeing big things for Nigma, if he keeps going the way he's going.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on January 18, 2017, 06:23:28 PM
I love that Bullock actually said that about no one staying dead in Gotham
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on January 18, 2017, 08:11:07 PM
By the time that Batman actually comes around, years from now, what qualifies as strange to us now will probably seem pretty quaint.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on January 24, 2017, 03:11:19 AM
Cameron Monaghan going full Ledger.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on January 24, 2017, 11:11:17 AM
I think he could be better and I got more of a Jack vibe off him anyway
Saw a little Romero in him as well
Ledger was over rated
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: dam skippy on January 24, 2017, 11:34:58 AM
I agree that he's using a piece of each of the Joker's.  It's a brilliant tribute but it gives him a character of his own.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on January 24, 2017, 11:55:21 AM
wonder how they're going to do the skin and color changes
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on January 31, 2017, 03:19:02 AM
Okay.....so who wants to be first in line to admit that I was right all along about Penguin and Nygma?

Queue up, guys. No pushing and shoving.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on January 31, 2017, 06:46:23 AM
Still looked gay to me...
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on January 31, 2017, 03:01:09 PM
Okay.....so who wants to be first in line to admit that I was right all along about Penguin and Nygma?

Queue up, guys. No pushing and shoving.


Looked gay to me, but not 100% gay.  maybe 98% gay and 2% confusion.  This conclusion is supported by Nygma saying 'I don't love you, I love (whatever the fuck her name was)".  That's implying romantic love (as you can only love one person) as the topic of conversation. 
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on January 31, 2017, 04:51:48 PM

Looked gay to me, but not 100% gay.  maybe 98% gay and 2% confusion.  This conclusion is supported by Nygma saying 'I don't love you, I love (whatever the fuck her name was)".  That's implying romantic love (as you can only love one person) as the topic of conversation. 

This was never about whether Nygma loved Penguin, but whether Penguin loved Nygma. And roll the tape back 30 seconds earlier, when Penguin is going on about his mother - exactly what I was saying months ago.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on January 31, 2017, 07:12:22 PM
This was never about whether Nygma loved Penguin, but whether Penguin loved Nygma. And roll the tape back 30 seconds earlier, when Penguin is going on about his mother - exactly what I was saying months ago.

That's why I said 98% gay.  If you tell someone that you love them, and their reply is "I don't love you, I love someone else" you are 100.00% in the realm of romantic interest.  There is literally no way around the logic.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on January 31, 2017, 08:16:53 PM
That's why I said 98% gay.  If you tell someone that you love them, and their reply is "I don't love you, I love someone else" you are 100.00% in the realm of romantic interest.  There is literally no way around the logic.

Again, it has nothing to do with what Nygma said or what Nygma felt, only what Penguin said and felt. If he says "I love you" to Nygma," it either means an emotion based in romantic interest, or something else. It's clear from what Penguin said about his mother that the emotion is actually based in something else (and he's just realizing it).

All it means when Nygma says, "I don't love you" is that he doesn't care where Peguin's "love" is coming from - the pickle-kisser can take a hike.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on January 31, 2017, 08:21:06 PM
Again, it has nothing to do with what Nygma said or what Nygma felt, only what Penguin said and felt. If he says "I love you" to Nygma," it either means an emotion based in romantic interest, or something else. It's clear from what Penguin said about his mother that the emotion is actually based in something else (and he's just realizing it).

All it means when Nygma says, "I don't love you" is that he doesn't care where Peguin's "love" is coming from - the pickle-kisser can take a hike.

meh
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on January 31, 2017, 08:39:04 PM
Kind of an odd thing to project his love of his mother onto a dude instead of a chick if he's straight.

If he's never shown interest in women before, while chasing after a man, odds are he's probably into men.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on January 31, 2017, 10:14:04 PM
Kind of an odd thing to project his love of his mother onto a dude instead of a chick if he's straight.

If he's never shown interest in women before, while chasing after a man, odds are he's probably into men.

His mother sheltered him his entire life, all the while being the only person who made him feel like he had any value. Then she dies, and Nygma fills that role for him. So he transfers his unconditional love for his mother onto Nygma. If any other woman had done that for him, he'd be just as whipped.

Watch and see how into dudes he is once he gets back from Indian Hill.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on April 23, 2017, 12:59:36 PM
Season resumes tomorrow.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on May 02, 2017, 01:45:03 AM
Penguin and Ivy are really good together in scenes.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on May 02, 2017, 09:36:28 AM
My favorite pairing for Oswald yet.

Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: dam skippy on May 02, 2017, 10:05:07 AM
It's about time they moved toward Penguin realizing he wouldn't be respected.  He needs to be the freak.


So, is the sensie Raj?


I wonder who the weapon is.  I hope they don't make it Bane.




Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on May 02, 2017, 10:23:11 AM
It's about time they moved toward Penguin realizing he wouldn't be respected.  He needs to be the freak.


So, is the sensie Raj?


I wonder who the weapon is.  I hope they don't make it Bane.

You think it'll be a person, and not a bomb or something?
.
Maybe Killer Croc?  Or Solomon Grundy?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: dam skippy on May 02, 2017, 11:01:27 AM
They said it had Indian Hill on the box.  I assumed it was a person.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on May 09, 2017, 01:36:54 AM
Looks like we got the updated Michelle Pfeiffer origin story for Catwoman this time around.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: dam skippy on May 09, 2017, 02:56:52 PM
This felt rushed but they just about nailed the Batman 2 Catwoman origin. Now if she can blow up a store and meow, we have a winner.


I was hoping she would be stealing some of Tabitha's skills and looks. I guess it is still a possibility. 
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: IMISSTORRIEWILSON on May 29, 2017, 10:28:52 PM
No comments on the past few weeks? I can stand for this no longer. Maybe I missed it but how did Butch and Riddler (I do not want to chance it and get him pissed at me by calling him Ed) get out of the safe house trap that penguin set up for them? Also I kind of hated that they brought Fish back? She is ok if they keep her in small doses but I swear it seemed like she had 40 percent of the screentime in season 1 and it bored me to tears. It seems the writers are aware of this and tried to have Butch put her over with the audience.

Also not that she was not cute before but I love me some villain Lee I hope she survives the season finale.
I wonder where Don Falcone is during all of this? Did he just get the hell out of Gotham since he might have been aware of the court's plans? Would someone tip him off?

Also I love how Strange smiled at Lee in jail and when she gave him a evil look he slowly backed away. Subtle things like that really make me enjoy this show.


Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on May 30, 2017, 12:53:47 AM
Both Leigh and Barbara Kean became 50 times more interesting after they broke bad. I can only hope the same holds true for Gordon now that he's infected himself.

As for the rest, this show is just littered with plot holes, week after week. I don't think the writers are really trying that hard to rein it in, either. But I'll give them this - the show is interesting.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on May 30, 2017, 11:08:07 AM
Yeah, the show's full of so many plot holes you could waste over an hour just rewatching scenes to see if you missed something (How did Fish find Penguins safe house?  How did Lee find Gordan?  How did Alfred find Bruce, and how did he sneak up on the old guy?  Didn't he have Talon's keeping watch?)

Ignore the details, and this was an interesting show.  With Gordon, Lee, and a good chunk of Gotham infected, we know we're getting a cure for the virus (Probably too late for Barnes).

Also, we know Ra's is behind the court, since the old man said "Seek out the Demon's Head".  I don't believe Ra's and the court were related in the comics (Not really Ra's style.  He's an eco terrorist, while the Court are uber wealthy aristocratic control freaks..)
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on May 30, 2017, 01:49:26 PM
How did Fish find Penguins safe house?
-- It may have been one of hers

  How did Lee find Gordan?
-- Didn't he go to   How did Alfred find Bruce, and how did he sneak up on the old guy?  Didn't he have Talon's keeping watch?
-- Strange told him didn't he? And he was special forces
[/size]I agree about Fish - I saw her and thought "not her again"
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on May 30, 2017, 01:50:52 PM
WTF happened to my reply?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on May 30, 2017, 01:53:43 PM
How did Fish find Penguins safe house?
-- It may have been one of hers
  How did Lee find Gordan?
-- Didn't he go to her?
 How did Alfred find Bruce, and how did he sneak up on the old guy?  Didn't he have Talon's keeping watch?
-- Strange told him didn't he? And he was special forces
I agree about Fish - I saw her and thought "not her again"
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on June 01, 2017, 08:13:13 PM
How did Fish find Penguins safe house?
-- It may have been one of hers
  How did Lee find Gordan?
-- Didn't he go to her?
 How did Alfred find Bruce, and how did he sneak up on the old guy?  Didn't he have Talon's keeping watch?
-- Strange told him didn't he? And he was special forces
I agree about Fish - I saw her and thought "not her again"

Penguin did steal her empire, didn't he.

Yeah, could be one of hers at that. 

Still very convienent timing (I mean, she must have had other safe houses, and still knew he was there at that specfic time, plus knew enough to come armed to the teeth.  Could be she was tailing Penguin for months..)
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: IMISSTORRIEWILSON on June 01, 2017, 09:58:31 PM
I do not consider things like Fish showing up out of the blue a plot hole. The biggest plot hole this show ever had was we Fish get shot in a helicopter back in season 1 then we see her in the next episode and she has a new hair do and no mention of how she healed from her gun shot wound. I am like wtf? Honestly season 1 has little rewatch value for me other than the rise of penguin. Season 2 the strange stuff I was kind of meh on but I enjoyed the Thedore Galavan arc with hos fucking hot black piece of ass sister. Tabitha Galavan is all kinds of yummy. Season 3 for me is the most enjoyable season because none of the arcs have ever bored me but I hated the long ass wait we had to endure but alas that is the case with all shows. Looks like next season Gotham is either moving to a new night or will not start unitl jan 2018 because lucifer is getting the 8pm mon night slot which is a solid show in its own right if you have never watched it.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on June 05, 2017, 08:58:03 PM
Fish dead, good. Let her stay that way


They should have gotten the actor from Arrow to plat Ras
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on June 06, 2017, 12:11:24 PM
Fish wasn't even a little bit necessary for the story, and her sudden Penguin love made no sense.

I think she agreed to leave the show forever only if she went out with a bang, and they shoehorned her in just to get it over with and be done with her.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on June 06, 2017, 01:43:58 PM
So we started out with 3 male/female teams And end up with Penguin and Tabitha on the loose
Riddler will get free of course
Is Barbara really dead?


And who is Cyrus Gold? I feel like I should know that name but I can't place it
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on June 06, 2017, 02:23:15 PM
Has anyone stayed dead yet?  :)
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on June 06, 2017, 03:32:43 PM
So we started out with 3 male/female teams And end up with Penguin and Tabitha on the loose
Riddler will get free of course
Is Barbara really dead?


And who is Cyrus Gold? I feel like I should know that name but I can't place it

I was bummed they whacked Barbara. Between her and Tabitha, she was more interesting to watch, but maybe the Tabby/Selina team will be interesting. And yeah, it's Gotham, so they could easily bring her back next year.

I think Cyrus Gold is a fairly deep cut in the DC Universe. He's got a few different origin stories.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on June 06, 2017, 03:42:05 PM
Lot of love talk between Riddler and Penguin..didn't really seem like family love they were talking about.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BobbyR on June 06, 2017, 04:39:23 PM
I didn't even realize - Tabby. Catwoman - cute


I guess I better hit Wiki
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on June 06, 2017, 04:42:04 PM
Lot of love talk between Riddler and Penguin..didn't really seem like family love they were talking about.

It's paternal/maternal/brotherly love!

Hence the completely natural murderous jealousy!  Don't we all want to murder our family when they chose sex over us?  ;)

Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on June 06, 2017, 04:59:14 PM
http://tvline.com/2016/11/13/gotham-season-3-gay-penguin-robin-lord-taylor-homophobes/

Quote
During an appearance with castmate Sean Pertwee at this weekend’s Rhode Island Comic Con, Taylor addressed those who have come to him to claim they have “no problem” with Oswald being “gay or queer,” except for the fact that it conflicts with character traits established in comic book canon. “That’s a bunch of horses–t,” he declares in the FanGeek video below, at the 1:00 mark.
By demonstrating such a double standard, “What you’re saying to me is, ‘I am homophobic, and I am afraid of gay people,'” Taylor argues. “That is exactly what you’re saying.”

I love Robin Lord Taylor's character, and wouldn't argue against a gay Penguin , but seriously, he needs to step back.

If your first impulse is to push the nuclear option, you're probably not really interested in a discussion in the first place.

Or who knows, maybe that's the point.  Stir the pot and get people talking, bring in interest to the show.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on June 06, 2017, 07:13:52 PM
Quote
Interestingly, Taylor at the very start of the video shares his own opinion that Gotham‘s Oswald “is not” necessarily gay but “emotionally fractured” and “vulnerable” in the wake of both his parents dying. As such, anyone who treated him with kindness and respect, as Edward Nygma has, would have earned his fervent attention.
“I truly believe that had it been Barbara, or Tabitha… or Butch…. Regardless of if they were male or female, he would have had that same obsession,” he contends.


I think I'll take that victory lap now.  :yahoo_mini:
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on June 07, 2017, 04:12:38 PM

I think I'll take that victory lap now.  :yahoo_mini:


i'd prefer to hear it from the writers, the dialogue in the last episode was clear as day "how does it feel to love someone, that doesn't WANT you?"
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on June 07, 2017, 04:42:48 PM

i'd prefer to hear it from the writers, the dialogue in the last episode was clear as day "how does it feel to love someone, that doesn't WANT you?"

And in the end, an actor doesn't necessarily know the whole story, and is just interpreting what he does know like the fans.

I doubt he'd argue the sams thing now.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on June 07, 2017, 07:41:59 PM
Okay, now you're both being ridiculous. Robin Lord Taylor restated what I was saying about Penguin seven months ago, and you're holding out on the idea that he's among the least-informed humans alive in terms of what his character actually wants. Or that the writers had a completely different idea, but Taylor just did his own thing and nobody noticed or bothered to stop him.

To quote Jenny Curran: "Forrest....you don't know what love is. You big dope." (paraphrased from memory)
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on June 07, 2017, 09:14:33 PM
Okay, now you're both being ridiculous. Robin Lord Taylor restated what I was saying about Penguin seven months ago, and you're holding out on the idea that he's among the least-informed humans alive in terms of what his character actually wants. Or that the writers had a completely different idea, but Taylor just did his own thing and nobody noticed or bothered to stop him.

To quote Jenny Curran: "Forrest....you don't know what love is. You big dope." (paraphrased from memory)

Riddler would not use the word "want" if it wasn't romantic love.  He didn't say "how does it feel to love someone, that doesn't love you back".  He said "want".  It's romantic, broski.  I'm totally cool with him being a gay character if that's the case, btw.  I don't possess comic nerd rage lol
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on June 08, 2017, 02:11:14 AM
For one thing, Riddler's impression as to the nature of Oswald's affection is entirely beside the point. Nygma might well interpret it as an authentic romantic attraction. That doesn't make it one.

But the main point here is that "love" in an umbrella term, and you're not looking under the umbrella. Oswald's affection is not coming from a place of authentic romance. It's coming from the same place that had him loving his mother. And since he's emotionally stunted, he can't help but channel his feelings inappropriately. It looks like authentic romance, because Oswald never learned how different types of love manifest in human behavior. When he sees two adults in love, he assumes that affection is of the same character as what they must have felt for their parents.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: Pebble.2.0 on June 08, 2017, 08:18:11 AM
For one thing, Riddler's impression as to the nature of Oswald's affection is entirely beside the point. Nygma might well interpret it as anauthentic romantic attraction. That doesn't make it one.

But the main point here is that "love" in an umbrella term, and you're not looking under the umbrella. Oswald's affection is not coming from a place of authentic romance. It's coming from the same place that had him loving his mother. And since he's emotionally stunted, he can't help but channel his feelings inappropriately. It looks like authentic romance, because Oswald never learned how different types of love manifest in human behavior. When he sees two adults in love, he assumes that affection is of the same character as what they must have felt for their parents.


Yes but Oswald did not refute Nygma's (clearly stated) interpretation!  8)
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: BlackLight on June 08, 2017, 12:39:58 PM

Yes but Oswald did not refute Nygma's (clearly stated) interpretation!  8)

Because, at a fundamental level, Oswald doesn't really know what he wants (or why he wants it) either.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: dam skippy on June 12, 2017, 12:13:30 PM
I am late to the party and just finished the season finale.


Will they timehop?


When I first saw Butch, I thought he would make an awesome Solomon Grundy, then the medical staff said his original name and I reacted like a school kid.  This will be awesome.


I figured Cat and Dude's sister would work together since she emulated Catwoman in combat.  Good start.


I won't miss Lee.


I will miss Fish.
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: DocSavage on June 12, 2017, 04:56:43 PM
So did Barnes die?  Or did everyone just forget about curing him?
Title: Re: Gotham (FOX)
Post by: IMISSTORRIEWILSON on June 14, 2017, 02:33:42 PM
I will greatly miss Lee. Fish will not be missed  by 99 percent of the viewing audience.